It says: "At some turning points, two of these phenomena have occurred together at different degrees, compounding the violence of the next move in the opposite direction."
That means: Diagonal and truncated fifth or any of the other phenomena combined. When that happens, dramatic reversal...
No, it says they have occurred together at DIFFERENT DEGREES (i.e., truncated fifth of the larger degree and diagonal on the smaller degree).
Okay, you showed me how that person interprets the wave principle and how he trades and that's all well and good. But, I asked you to tell me how the Elliott Wave theory is a trading system, not how somebody else interprets it. In your last post you said the Elliott Wave theory was a trading system. Help me to understand...
So, when I look at a wave formation, make a trading decision based upon that formation, did I not use it as a trading method?
It is all in how you use and apply it.
Where do you put your entries, exits and stops? Most important part of trading.
Would you put your long at the end of a wave 5?
No, a smart elliotician would go short. You just made a trading decision upon a wave count. And if you repeat that often enough it is a system.
We do it here every day. Now, some trade setups are very profitable and work at high percentage. Some you cannot lose! They are not in the book.
Can you figure them out? Yes, of course you can. It might take a while though.
You see, when I started EW my main problem was where do I enter and where do I exit? I was missing trades left and right because of a few pips. Winners turned into losers and I did not know why, my counts were correct, trades went the right way, yet I was not profitable.
Then I started looking how to trade EW, how to confirm counts by using indicators. What are the high probability entry and exits. What if my count is wrong?
If you are wrong at the end of a wave 5, not much can be done, so don't trade it. But if you are wrong at the end of a wave 3 (e.g. its a C) many things are possible to regain your loss and even book a profit.
Or what about trading a wave C, what is the most probable exit? At the ideal 1.618 fibo extension? What if it is a flat?
Yes, that is analysis, but also trading, bottom line is you are making a trading decision upon that particular count.
Oh, and EW is not a trading system, give me a break!
What are you trying to figure out EW for?
EW is a trading system bar none, if you interpret it correctly.
If not, why bother? Go do MA's much easier.
I love Pipin i have to aqgree with Justy ......
Elliott Waves is not a trading system
it is not that cut and dry .....
/////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
Trading with Elliott Waves a black box system that alerts
you when to get in and when to get out .....
///////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// You need Money Management parameters to successfully trade with Elliott Waves
and,
You are to apply your Money Management rules that you have set for yourself, after you decide on a wave-count that you decide to trade off of .... its that simple !
( this is the most important thing to understand when trading with Elliott Waves )
and you need to watch Fibonacci Replacement Levels
and train your eye to see corrections ,,, " so called pullbacks"
and you have to also decide if you are Bullish ,,,,, or Bearish
to begin with , because there is always a bullish and a bearish
wave count happening at the same time .
the markets always have a bearish tone and a bullish tone occurring at the same time
------------------------------- ----------------------------------
you also should also read more than just Pretcher's basic book
after all its a only a " basic book " ......... it is not enough !
anyone serious about trading elliott waves should be more than willing to further his or her education by seeking out Pretchers more advanced materials ...... pretcher has Written 13 Books in all
/////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
Pretcher does not give Entries and Targets with his calls ......
( but command $199 month for his signal service )
there is an elliot wave international thread in this forum ,,,,, there are no entries given ,,,,,there are no targets given
and they dont come back and post a result chart either
No, it says they have occurred together at DIFFERENT DEGREES (i.e., truncated fifth of the larger degree and diagonal on the smaller degree).
I interpreted that those phenomena can occur together at different degrees. Not one at one degree and another at another degree, but together at any degree.
I interpreted that those phenomena can occur together at different degrees. Not one at one degree and another at another degree, but together at any degree.
Isn't "one at one degree and another at another degree" the definition of "different degrees?"
So, when I look at a wave formation, make a trading decision based upon that formation, did I not use it as a trading method?
It is all in how you use and apply it.
Where do you put your entries, exits and stops? Most important part of trading.
Would you put your long at the end of a wave 5?
No, a smart elliotician would go short. You just made a trading decision upon a wave count. And if you repeat that often enough it is a system.
We do it here every day. Now, some trade setups are very profitable and work at high percentage. Some you cannot lose! They are not in the book.
Can you figure them out? Yes, of course you can. It might take a while though.
You see, when I started EW my main problem was where do I enter and where do I exit? I was missing trades left and right because of a few pips. Winners turned into losers and I did not know why, my counts were correct, trades went the right way, yet I was not profitable.
Then I started looking how to trade EW, how to confirm counts by using indicators. What are the high probability entry and exits. What if my count is wrong?
If you are wrong at the end of a wave 5, not much can be done, so don't trade it. But if you are wrong at the end of a wave 3 (e.g. its a C) many things are possible to regain your loss and even book a profit.
Or what about trading a wave C, what is the most probable exit? At the ideal 1.618 fibo extension? What if it is a flat?
Yes, that is analysis, but also trading, bottom line is you are making a trading decision upon that particular count.
Okay, this is how you interpret the Elliott Wave theory and how you apply it to your trading. So now we have your interpretation and that other guy's interpretation. And my interpretation and application of it is different than those two.
But we still end with the same question. How is the Elliott Wave theory a trading system? You still have not answered my question. Let me know how this theory is a trading system, not how people interpret it.
Let's look at the three basic rules of impulses:
-Wave (2) never moves beyond the start of wave (1).
-Wave (3) is never the shortest.
-Wave (4) never ends in the price territory of wave (1).
You agree with these, right? What are these statements? Are they a trading system? Or are they a description of impulse wave formation? I think the latter statement makes the most sense, don't you? Those three rules, if you will, describe how an impulse has to form.
How does that differ from a trading system? Most trading systems tell you what has to happen for you to enter and exit a trade. They describe where you put your stops and limits and how you manage your trades. Those three rules of impulse formation don't tell you those things. All those three rules are doing is telling you what an impulse has to do and what it cannot do in order to be called an "impulse." You'll find that all of the other rules of the Elliott Wave theory do the same thing. They describe what a wave or pattern can and can't do. They do not tell you when and how to enter and exit trades. So the Elliott Wave theory cannot be called a trading system. A trading system tells you when and how to enter and exit trades. EW does not do that. It simply describes how waves and patterns form.
Isn't "one at one degree and another at another degree" the definition of "different degrees?"
You can have a truncated fifth in an expaning diagonal at primary degree.
It can also happen at minuette degree.
I can happen at supercycle degree etc.
Please Don't argue with me ,,,,,,, and don't disagree with me
------------------------------------------- ----------------- -------- -------------
Stop wasting your time with the Diagonal Patterns .....
- you don't really need them
So just leave them alone ,,,,,,, don't look for them any more .....
they are rare to begin with ..... ( maybe 2 in a year) mid-term charts
there are 3 types of Diagonals ,,,,,
most people in here are unaware of this , and don't label in the body of their chart
which type of diagonal they are illustrating ,,,,, and they don't come back and post a result chart
now , Ilove pippn ,,,,,,, of course you can do what ever you want to
i am am not demanding that you stop ...... i am simply asking you to stop
i am writing this message to you only , i lovepipn -----
let the others in here continue looking for them
Last edited by marketwavez2; 09-03-2009 at 10:20 PM.
You can have a truncated fifth in an expaning diagonal at primary degree.
It can also happen at minuette degree.
I can happen at supercycle degree etc.
That is how I read it.
Surely Prechter wouldn't have stated the obvious. Why would he have to say that you can have patterns form at primary degree, and you can have patterns form at minuette degree? That doesn't make any sense that he would have to say that.
It especially doesn't make sense that you can have a truncated fifth of an expanding diagonal, when it says point blank in the rules that govern expanding diagonals, that wave (5) has to be longer than wave (3), and that wave (5) has to end beyond the end of wave (3).
Why would he contradict himself like that, even in an "introductory" book? Doesn't make any sense...
Okay, this is how you interpret the Elliott Wave theory and how you apply it to your trading. So now we have your interpretation and that other guy's interpretation. And my interpretation and application of it is different than those two.
But we still end with the same question. How is the Elliott Wave theory a trading system? You still have not answered my question. Let me know how this theory is a trading system, not how people interpret it.
Let's look at the three basic rules of impulses:
-Wave (2) never moves beyond the start of wave (1).
-Wave (3) is never the shortest.
-Wave (4) never ends in the price territory of wave (1).
You agree with these, right? What are these statements? Are they a trading system? Or are they a description of impulse wave formation? I think the latter statement makes the most sense, don't you? Those three rules, if you will, describe how an impulse has to form.
How does that differ from a trading system? Most trading systems tell you what has to happen for you to enter and exit a trade. They describe where you put your stops and limits and how you manage your trades. Those three rules of impulse formation don't tell you those things. All those three rules are doing is telling you what an impulse has to do and what it cannot do in order to be called an "impulse." You'll find that all of the other rules of the Elliott Wave theory do the same thing. They describe what a wave or pattern can and can't do. They do not tell you when and how to enter and exit trades. So the Elliott Wave theory cannot be called a trading system. A trading system tells you when and how to enter and exit trades. EW does not do that. It simply describes how waves and patterns form.
Okay, but wasn't that exactly my point, that is in not in the book.
The book is for introduction of analysis. Not trading.
Trading the EW requires more than the "Key to market behaviour" book by Prechter.
On your example:
- Wave (2) never moves beyond the start of wave (1).
So, when wave 2 has retraced 61.8% of 1, go long with a stop at origin of wave 1.
- Wave (3) is never the shortest.
When wave 3 is shorter than wave 1, you know that wave 5 will be shorter than 3. You can set a more probable exit.
Also, if wave 3 is barely longer than 1, you know that wave 5 is more likely to extend. etc.
- Wave (4) never ends in the price territory of wave (1)
And when it does it is time for that reversal trade.
Trading decisions on your EW count, that is what I am talking about. If you define those well, and it is repeatable, it is a system.
Please Don't argue with me ,,,,,,, and don't disagree with me
------------------------------------------- ----------------- --------
Stop wasting your time with the Diagonal Patterns .....
you don't really need them
So just leave them alone ,,,,,,, don't look for them any more .....
they are rare to begin with ..... ( maybe 2 in a year) mid-term charts
there are 3 types of Diagonals ,,,,,
most people in here are unaware of this , and don't label in the body of their chart
which type of diagonal they are illustrating ,,,,, and they don't come back and post a result chart
now Ilove pippn ,,,,,,, of course you can do what ever you want to
i am am not demanding you stop ...... i am simply asking you to stop
i am writing this message to you only , i lovepipn -----
This is a discussion forum. Not a chart posting forum. If people want to discuss certain aspects of the Elliott Wave theory, then that is the purpose of the forum.
This forum is lame when all that people do is post charts. It's good to get conversations going. This is how people learn.
Okay, but wasn't that exactly my point, that is in not in the book.
The book is for introduction of analysis. Not trading.
Trading the EW requires more than the "Key to market behaviour" book by Prechter.
On your example:
- Wave (2) never moves beyond the start of wave (1).
So, when wave 2 has retraced 61.8% of 1, go long with a stop at origin of wave 1.
- Wave (3) is never the shortest.
When wave 3 is shorter than wave 1, you know that wave 5 will be shorter than 3. You can set a more probable exit.
Also, if wave 3 is barely longer than 1, you know that wave 5 is more likely to extend. etc.
- Wave (4) never ends in the price territory of wave (1)
And when it does it is time for that reversal trade.
Trading decisions on your EW count, that is what I am talking about. If you define those well, and it is repeatable, it is a system.
You are missing the point. Elliott Wave is not a trading system. Yes, common sense tells us how to capitalize on the information that EW gives us, but the EW theory is not a trading system in and of itself.
Common sense tells us that if we are in a trade that we presume to be the end of wave (2), but price continues below what we thought to be the start of wave (1), we get out of the trade. We all understand that. But Elliott Wave does not tell us to do that. We decide to do that. All Elliott Wave says, in that instance, is that wave (2) does not travel beyond the start of wave (1). It is up to you as the trader to decide how to capitalize on that description of how waves form and make your trading decision based on that.
This is a discussion forum. Not a chart posting forum. If people want to discuss certain aspects of the Elliott Wave theory, then that is the purpose of the forum.
This forum is lame when all that people do is post charts. It's good to get conversations going. This is how people learn.
There is no reason to stop this conversation.
that post is about Elliott waves theory as you say
and remeber i'm in here than you are ......
and i write much much more in here than you do !
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
so write what ever you want ....... or post your charts ...... its all good
Last edited by marketwavez2; 09-03-2009 at 10:51 PM.
You are missing the point. Elliott Wave is not a trading system. Yes, common sense tells us how to capitalize on the information that EW gives us, but the EW theory is not a trading system in and of itself.
Common sense tells us that if we are in a trade that we presume to be the end of wave (2), but price continues below what we thought to be the start of wave (1), we get out of the trade. We all understand that. But Elliott Wave does not tell us to do that. We decide to do that. All Elliott Wave says, in that instance, is that wave (2) does not travel beyond the start of wave (1). It is up to you as the trader to decide how to capitalize on that description of how waves form and make your trading decision based on that.
Okay, it is okay to have a difference of opinion.
I trade based upon EW. You do it different. Thats fine.
I hope you are succesfull and thank you for your insight.
But, when you make a trading decision upon a wave pattern, then you used EW as a trading system. Eventhough it is not.
You can also use indicators and MA in combination with EW patterns, high probability ones.
I use EW to trade, not to figure out where the market goes, there is no money in just figuring out where it goes, you need to place those trades.
Last edited by Ilovepippin; 09-03-2009 at 10:33 PM.
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Originally Posted by Ilovepippin
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