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Poll: Which of 3 different sample portfolios on Oct 15 (post # 360) do you prefer?
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Which of 3 different sample portfolios on Oct 15 (post # 360) do you prefer?

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  #316 (permalink)  
Old 10-11-2009, 06:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kata View Post
Hi, I just sign up for dailyfx, today. I would like to know:
How much the leverage should be on FSS? Thanks:Kata
When you enroll for a live FSS account, it comes with the standard 200 : 1 leverage. Remember that just because your car might be able to drive 200 miles per hour, that doesn't mean you run to run it that fast. Running your car that fast increases your probability of crashing. The same concept applies to your trading account as well.

The most experienced and educated hedge funds that are able to consistently produce results are often times less than 7 times leverage. The are times when the market moves against you...you have to prepare for the worst case scenario.
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*Past performance posted by Signal and Systems Providers (“Providers”), is not necessarily indicative of future results. No representation is made that any account is likely to achieve profits or losses similar to those shown. In fact, there are frequently sharp differences between hypothetical performance results and the actual results subsequently achieved by any particularly trading program. The composite monthly results are primarily hypothetical results of the master demo and its representation of the Providers, though performance results displayed may represent a combination of live and hypothetical results and are not exclusive to either. There are numerous other factors related to markets in general or to the implementation of any specific trading program that cannot be fully accounted for in the preparation of hypothetical performance results and all of which can adversely affect actual trading results. In the event that specific trades were simultaneously executed in hypothetical and live, real-time trading, the lesser of the two results will be displayed. There is no guarantee that one applying these methodologies would have the same results as the hypothetically posted. Since trading successfully depends on many elements including but not limited to a trading methodology and a trader's own psychology, the web site does not make any representation whatsoever that the above mentioned trading systems might be or are suitable or that they would be profitable for you. Please realize the risk with any investment and consult investment professionals before proceeding. The trading systems herein described have been developed for sophisticated traders who fully understand the nature and the scope of the risks that are associated with trading. Should you decide to trade any or all of these systems' signals, it is your decision.

Links to third-party sites are provided for your convenience and for informational purposes only. Forex Capital Markets LLC bears no responsibility for the accuracy, content, or any other matter related to the external site or for that of subsequent links, and accepts no liability whatsoever for any loss or damage arising from the use of this or any other content. Such sites are not within our control and may not follow the same privacy, security, or accessibility standards as ours. Please read the linked websites' terms and conditions.
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  #317 (permalink)  
Old 10-11-2009, 06:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alec View Post
Thank you Jeremy, I was under the impression HidalgoFX was trend trading, you cleared for me that they follow the daily trend. Meanwhile you added other ideas and concepts I intend to explore. Now, returning to a previously discussed approach.

The "Aggressive" or "Market Conditions" approach. I'll share more details, as I have some notes about that:

Characteristics:

  • About 5 selected systems - Some of the top performers. I can share my selection criteria on some other post.
  • It's a High maintenance strategy*
Rules:
  1. During the 4th week of the month - when we have access to performance data just under 1 month
  2. When a system opens position(s), deactivate all the others
  3. When position(s) start closing, deactivate the (active) system
  4. All positions closed: reactivate systems until one starts trading. Meaning: back to 2.
    Note: Before reactivating, systems' performance must be re-checked.

Last but not least, market conditions should be 'right'.



* With systems active, you must be watching. Not go to sleep or go out unless there are no systems active.
You can still have positions open, just have the corresponding system not active, just managing the closures.
Thank you for sharing your strategy...best of luck on trading it.
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*Past performance posted by Signal and Systems Providers (“Providers”), is not necessarily indicative of future results. No representation is made that any account is likely to achieve profits or losses similar to those shown. In fact, there are frequently sharp differences between hypothetical performance results and the actual results subsequently achieved by any particularly trading program. The composite monthly results are primarily hypothetical results of the master demo and its representation of the Providers, though performance results displayed may represent a combination of live and hypothetical results and are not exclusive to either. There are numerous other factors related to markets in general or to the implementation of any specific trading program that cannot be fully accounted for in the preparation of hypothetical performance results and all of which can adversely affect actual trading results. In the event that specific trades were simultaneously executed in hypothetical and live, real-time trading, the lesser of the two results will be displayed. There is no guarantee that one applying these methodologies would have the same results as the hypothetically posted. Since trading successfully depends on many elements including but not limited to a trading methodology and a trader's own psychology, the web site does not make any representation whatsoever that the above mentioned trading systems might be or are suitable or that they would be profitable for you. Please realize the risk with any investment and consult investment professionals before proceeding. The trading systems herein described have been developed for sophisticated traders who fully understand the nature and the scope of the risks that are associated with trading. Should you decide to trade any or all of these systems' signals, it is your decision.

Links to third-party sites are provided for your convenience and for informational purposes only. Forex Capital Markets LLC bears no responsibility for the accuracy, content, or any other matter related to the external site or for that of subsequent links, and accepts no liability whatsoever for any loss or damage arising from the use of this or any other content. Such sites are not within our control and may not follow the same privacy, security, or accessibility standards as ours. Please read the linked websites' terms and conditions.
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  #318 (permalink)  
Old 10-11-2009, 06:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alec View Post
September results on a (again) Low Equity live account (in Euros).

The systems were, as stated earlier: WaveTrade GBPUSD and EURUSD; HidalgoFX EURUSD and AUDUSD.

Amazing how there was not a single loss. Lucky, I guess?
Great results Alec. There are times when you will run off a winning streak and times when you can't seem to find a winner. A good trader is constantly going to remind themselves of the risk involved and make sure their risk management is appropriate. That way, they don't give back all of their hard earned winnings on a couple of trades.

Keep up the good work.
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*Past performance posted by Signal and Systems Providers (“Providers”), is not necessarily indicative of future results. No representation is made that any account is likely to achieve profits or losses similar to those shown. In fact, there are frequently sharp differences between hypothetical performance results and the actual results subsequently achieved by any particularly trading program. The composite monthly results are primarily hypothetical results of the master demo and its representation of the Providers, though performance results displayed may represent a combination of live and hypothetical results and are not exclusive to either. There are numerous other factors related to markets in general or to the implementation of any specific trading program that cannot be fully accounted for in the preparation of hypothetical performance results and all of which can adversely affect actual trading results. In the event that specific trades were simultaneously executed in hypothetical and live, real-time trading, the lesser of the two results will be displayed. There is no guarantee that one applying these methodologies would have the same results as the hypothetically posted. Since trading successfully depends on many elements including but not limited to a trading methodology and a trader's own psychology, the web site does not make any representation whatsoever that the above mentioned trading systems might be or are suitable or that they would be profitable for you. Please realize the risk with any investment and consult investment professionals before proceeding. The trading systems herein described have been developed for sophisticated traders who fully understand the nature and the scope of the risks that are associated with trading. Should you decide to trade any or all of these systems' signals, it is your decision.

Links to third-party sites are provided for your convenience and for informational purposes only. Forex Capital Markets LLC bears no responsibility for the accuracy, content, or any other matter related to the external site or for that of subsequent links, and accepts no liability whatsoever for any loss or damage arising from the use of this or any other content. Such sites are not within our control and may not follow the same privacy, security, or accessibility standards as ours. Please read the linked websites' terms and conditions.
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  #319 (permalink)  
Old 10-11-2009, 06:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lemur View Post
Looking at wavetrade, they state they have a stop loss as wide as 600 pips.

So they are only booking small profits which looks great for a while, then the mkt goes against them with just one bad stopped trade and they give back all the profits and then some. You need 99% winning trades to make money.

Curve will look great until you hit that one bad trade that blows the P/L out of the window.
Good note Lemur.

The Wavetrade GBPUSD did in fact have a 600 pip loss so it would be wise to plan on it for money managemet. It would take a lot of winners to make up for the one losing trade. Also, don't forget to figure in your commission cost of $1 per 10k position...especially on the systems that trade quite frequently.
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*Past performance posted by Signal and Systems Providers (“Providers”), is not necessarily indicative of future results. No representation is made that any account is likely to achieve profits or losses similar to those shown. In fact, there are frequently sharp differences between hypothetical performance results and the actual results subsequently achieved by any particularly trading program. The composite monthly results are primarily hypothetical results of the master demo and its representation of the Providers, though performance results displayed may represent a combination of live and hypothetical results and are not exclusive to either. There are numerous other factors related to markets in general or to the implementation of any specific trading program that cannot be fully accounted for in the preparation of hypothetical performance results and all of which can adversely affect actual trading results. In the event that specific trades were simultaneously executed in hypothetical and live, real-time trading, the lesser of the two results will be displayed. There is no guarantee that one applying these methodologies would have the same results as the hypothetically posted. Since trading successfully depends on many elements including but not limited to a trading methodology and a trader's own psychology, the web site does not make any representation whatsoever that the above mentioned trading systems might be or are suitable or that they would be profitable for you. Please realize the risk with any investment and consult investment professionals before proceeding. The trading systems herein described have been developed for sophisticated traders who fully understand the nature and the scope of the risks that are associated with trading. Should you decide to trade any or all of these systems' signals, it is your decision.

Links to third-party sites are provided for your convenience and for informational purposes only. Forex Capital Markets LLC bears no responsibility for the accuracy, content, or any other matter related to the external site or for that of subsequent links, and accepts no liability whatsoever for any loss or damage arising from the use of this or any other content. Such sites are not within our control and may not follow the same privacy, security, or accessibility standards as ours. Please read the linked websites' terms and conditions.
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  #320 (permalink)  
Old 10-11-2009, 07:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeremy Wagner View Post
Good note Lemur.

The Wavetrade GBPUSD did in fact have a 600 pip loss so it would be wise to plan on it for money managemet. It would take a lot of winners to make up for the one losing trade. Also, don't forget to figure in your commission cost of $1 per 10k position...especially on the systems that trade quite frequently.

Interesting trading strategy. They seem to be booking profits between 3-10 pips with a stop outside a 600 pip trading range? That sort of process would generate nice commissions for them but poor results for clients of their signals especially anyone with a leveraged a/c who would easily hit a margin call within their parameters.

Wonder if they are using a bot to generate the trades ( a lot of them) to have any chance of making enough trades to be a profitable strategy.

Last edited by Lemur; 10-11-2009 at 07:05 PM..
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  #321 (permalink)  
Old 10-11-2009, 07:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alec View Post
I said live and you can read profit: (€) 269.
I see.

Not sure what that 500k refers to below.
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  #322 (permalink)  
Old 10-11-2009, 07:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lemur View Post
Interesting trading strategy. They seem to be booking profits between 3-10 pips with a stop outside a 600 pip trading range? That sort of process would generate nice commissions for them but poor results for clients of their signals especially anyone with a leveraged a/c who would easily hit a margin call within their parameters.

Wonder if they are using a bot to generate the trades ( a lot of them) to have any chance of making enough trades to be a profitable strategy.
Looking at their largest winning trade & largest losing trade the above does not seem to be the case. Looks more like a discretionary trading system.
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  #323 (permalink)  
Old 10-11-2009, 08:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lemur View Post
I see.

Not sure what that 500k refers to below.
The 500k was the notional trading volume. In a demo account you can derive what the commission costs would be as commission is $1 per 10k position. In 500k of notional volume, that means $50 of commission.
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*Past performance posted by Signal and Systems Providers (“Providers”), is not necessarily indicative of future results. No representation is made that any account is likely to achieve profits or losses similar to those shown. In fact, there are frequently sharp differences between hypothetical performance results and the actual results subsequently achieved by any particularly trading program. The composite monthly results are primarily hypothetical results of the master demo and its representation of the Providers, though performance results displayed may represent a combination of live and hypothetical results and are not exclusive to either. There are numerous other factors related to markets in general or to the implementation of any specific trading program that cannot be fully accounted for in the preparation of hypothetical performance results and all of which can adversely affect actual trading results. In the event that specific trades were simultaneously executed in hypothetical and live, real-time trading, the lesser of the two results will be displayed. There is no guarantee that one applying these methodologies would have the same results as the hypothetically posted. Since trading successfully depends on many elements including but not limited to a trading methodology and a trader's own psychology, the web site does not make any representation whatsoever that the above mentioned trading systems might be or are suitable or that they would be profitable for you. Please realize the risk with any investment and consult investment professionals before proceeding. The trading systems herein described have been developed for sophisticated traders who fully understand the nature and the scope of the risks that are associated with trading. Should you decide to trade any or all of these systems' signals, it is your decision.

Links to third-party sites are provided for your convenience and for informational purposes only. Forex Capital Markets LLC bears no responsibility for the accuracy, content, or any other matter related to the external site or for that of subsequent links, and accepts no liability whatsoever for any loss or damage arising from the use of this or any other content. Such sites are not within our control and may not follow the same privacy, security, or accessibility standards as ours. Please read the linked websites' terms and conditions.
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  #324 (permalink)  
Old 10-11-2009, 08:23 PM
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Low Equity 'Prudent' Portfolio

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alec View Post
Hello Jeremy,

What would you say about the following portfolio for (this) October?

Thank you, 'see' you at a webinar
So, since you're around, what can you say about that?

Thanks

Last edited by Alec; 10-12-2009 at 11:20 AM..
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  #325 (permalink)  
Old 10-11-2009, 09:02 PM
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Just having some fun with the signal providers.

Aggregate performance across all currency pairs for the last six months. Gamete game comes out on top.

Signal Provider Pips
Gamete Game Maker NH 35215
Secretory Rate NH 25778
TNT 20392
El Clasico 15586
AA-Trader 15238
Rolls Royce 15007
BigBen 13898
ForexCN 13505
Never-Greedy 9126
Alpha Male 9121
MAX1 8952
Max2 7699
Winner 7397
AirForce1 7393
Oleforex 7314
WaveTrade 7267
El Optimo 7117
100-Percent-Forex 7085
Natural Selection 6783
Lipid Mobilization NH 6447
SafeProfit 5930
Omkar_LT_4 5690
Lotus 5599
CurrencyTradingAdvisory 5484
MI 5427
TrendScaler 4830
Exchange Pilot 4036
WealthBuildersFX-Striker 3700
Wintoryfx 3667
PipSniper 3565
CAC 3444
EURUSD-Mover 3422
tianyixitong 3348
Xchange chromosome NH 3250
Omkar 3039
AUDJPY-Mover 3023
MrEuro 2926
Metal Forex 2863
HidalgoFX 2829
Lexus 2741
Omkar_LT_6 2690
Dragon 2417
Scorebot SG 2255
DailyTrend 2189
GL-FOREX 2185
USDCAD-Mover 2174
Pipsociety 2088
HP TRADING 2054
GBPUSD-Mover 2047
BlackBox 2011
AutoFuturos N 1982
Flying Tigers 1740
1stStepEURUSD2 1726
ForexFantasy 1699
NZDJPY-Mover 1652
EURCHF-Mover 1635
SimpleMedium 1576
AUDUSD-Mover 1422
1stStepUSDCHF 1406
Milla 1385
OshiFX 1382
AUDCAD-Mover 1335
NZDUSD-Mover 1232
TheMoneyTraders 1147
AUDCHF-Mover 1043
Dollar-Bear-Trader 998
BreadWinner 997
IntelliForex-IntraDay 925
FxAlba 873
IntelliForex-Swing 861
CADJPY-Mover 859
HaveBall 856
Hero 851
Azapeterpan 764
Everest 691
IntelliForex-IntraDay-SE 679
TrendEscape 665
XingFX 665
ForexSolutions 627
RangeBreak 601
CHFJPY-Mover 558
Ksignals 545
crazymoneytree 447
F2T-FOREX 435
RAIDERFXPRO 397
Auto-Aggressor 339
Robox 329
DBSwing 293
Forecast 283
Aston Martin 258
Zenith 238
Turbulent Technician 227
Jimalaya2 184
2ndSkies 158
1stStepEURUSD 153
Auto-EuroLeve 152
DBIntraday 127
Auto-STS 124
USDTrends 121
AllBest 100
Ausinafx-ZTJ 84
AIMFX-Income 81
FundaTech1 77
EURGBP-Mover 75
Topsystem2000 65
Daydreamer 62
Auto-PoundRun DT 52
Auto-Thrust DT 50
Quants-VIP 46
Auto-EuroOne 43
IntelliForex-DayTrader 38
Auto-EuroRun DT 36
PipsocietyII 25
CurrencyRider 19
HBforex 3
Auto-BigSwingR -2
IntelliForex-Katana -74
SHCL-Haowaihui -75
WealthBuildersFX-Foxtrot -106
one2three -109
ProSignal-ShortTerm -122
Jimalaya -153
Smile -162
AQUA -177
RobotsTradingForex -184
AIM-FX -189
Auto-Attack Euro -255
ASUKA -261
Zorro -293
Correlfx -299
JohnnySky -301
MarathonAlliance -317
Battle -327
Profit Hunter -382
USDCHF-Mover -405
FX003-2 -413
Pipsopolis -498
Ausinafx-LL -542
ProSignal-MoneyMgmt -644
Mr.Z -652
Beginner_Buys -681
ArgoFX-Hercules -761
The-Assault-Squad -813
Matadorfx -817
Beginner_Sells -820
Team-Aphid-Daily -858
ClickNtrade_Sells -861
Xin-Xin -888
RoadRunner -893
Cytoplasmix NH -893
EURCAD-Mover -899
Quants-BabyBear -920
StockWatch -938
LaNa -1002
EspritFX -1011
FXTradingPro Short Term -1115
Izaklab -1267
Magic-Group -1270
ImpulseTrading -1277
WaveRider -1279
WinForex -1292
FxTradingPro -1323
Quants-MP40 -1406
Crossroads FX -1417
IntelliForex-F1 -1608
ClickNTradeBuys1 -1634
GBPJPY-Mover -1641
Quants-Carnival -1654
EURJPY-Mover -1726
Davinci -1773
Trade.wisely -1773
USDJPY-Mover -1814
InsideRange -1897
IntelliForex-Cable -2004
ClickNtrade_Buys -2008
Emerald -2037
Lucky -2067
FXStrategist -2109
WaveFX -2189
123Move -2355
Flasher -2491
Oxidative Stress balancer NH -2533
Quants-MiniMac -2536
CoolTrader -2537
ArgoFX-Zetes -2595
NewForexSpace -2651
UFOREX -2745
GBPCHF-Mover -2887
Active-Target-2 -2918
Dollar-Bull-Trader -2989
AIMFX-Saturn -3164
allwin -3169
Wang-China -3499
ClickNTradeSells1 -3578
Mini_Sells -3719
Traders-India -3724
Active-Target-1 -3740
AVATAR -3778
ColorForg -4063
BreakoutMaster -4388
TidalWave -4917
InsiderBreakout -5040
Peptide Synthesis NH -5093
OneFx -5303
Trend_Buys -5520
AAABBB -5694
LetsFX-OnePersist -6049
SniperFX -6074
01AM-numen-fund-pacoII -6095
1stStepGBPUSD -6138
Arrowfx -6246
01AM-numen-fund-pacoI -6356
Mini_Buys -6827
CornerStone-Zeus -6852
PipRancher -7219
OneFX-Signal-Samari -7226
Trend_Sells -7452
QuickShift -7709
FxGold -8556
1-Wang -8572
Vipsig-China -8613
7Star -8677
Break Point -8770
ElliotWave -9282
01AM-numen-fund-pacoIII -9507
A1776 -11557
NumenFundPaco -12111
Base-Hit -15801
Liquid-Multi -18590
FX-Express -18638
AlmaTrader -22652
fx-gain -30637
SharpPoint -56904
AEQUILIBRIUM-FX -62584
Grand Total -161157
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  #326 (permalink)  
Old 10-11-2009, 09:08 PM
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Looking at the Gamete info, it seems to be the same outfit that does Oxidative stress balancer. They seem to have some pretty powerful software though it needs to be said that although Oxidative does well over some currency pairs it loses overall.

InstrumentName SystemName Pips
AUDUSD Oxidative Stress balancer NH 13962.27
AUDJPY Oxidative Stress balancer NH 7597.302
EURUSD Oxidative Stress balancer NH 7321.1
NZDUSD Oxidative Stress balancer NH 18262.22
CADJPY Oxidative Stress balancer NH 3690.7
CHFJPY Oxidative Stress balancer NH 1497.899
EURCHF Oxidative Stress balancer NH -3604.596
GBPUSD Oxidative Stress balancer NH -20425.31
AUDCAD Oxidative Stress balancer NH -545.0061
EURGBP Oxidative Stress balancer NH -2790.802
USDJPY Oxidative Stress balancer NH -9653.699
GBPCHF Oxidative Stress balancer NH -17845.56
-2533.4821
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  #327 (permalink)  
Old 10-11-2009, 09:10 PM
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Their Gamete signal system shows better overall performance (over about a 90 period).

InstrumentName SystemName Pips
EURJPY Gamete Game Maker NH 4476.299
CADJPY Gamete Game Maker NH 3875.802
EURUSD Gamete Game Maker NH 3886.601
AUDUSD Gamete Game Maker NH 3856.193
GBPUSD Gamete Game Maker NH 3606.6
GBPJPY Gamete Game Maker NH 3807.302
USDCAD Gamete Game Maker NH 4003.6
AUDJPY Gamete Game Maker NH 3048.701
CHFJPY Gamete Game Maker NH 2735
AUDCHF Gamete Game Maker NH 2209.101
EURGBP Gamete Game Maker NH 1357.5
AUDCAD Gamete Game Maker NH 1938.5
USDCHF Gamete Game Maker NH 1850.2
USDJPY Gamete Game Maker NH 886.8999
EURCAD Gamete Game Maker NH 1015.099
EURCHF Gamete Game Maker NH 750.5001
AUDNZD Gamete Game Maker NH 312.5
EURNZD Gamete Game Maker NH -2206.205
EURAUD Gamete Game Maker NH -903.804
NZDUSD Gamete Game Maker NH -1735.1
GBPCHF Gamete Game Maker NH -3556.705
35214.584
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  #328 (permalink)  
Old 10-12-2009, 05:05 AM
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No idea who this 'Kesef' software house is but it has to be said their performance when looked across all systems since they started is very impressive. Its not the case that they just have one or two 'lucky' systems.

Signal provider Pips Avg
Cytoplasmix NH -893 -893
Gamete Game Maker NH 35215 1677
Lipid Mobilization NH 6447 1289
Oxidative Stress balancer NH -2533 -211
Peptide Synthesis NH -5093 -255
Secretory Rate NH 25778 1289
Xchange chromosome NH 3250 3250
Grand Total 62169 777

Their systems made a net total of 62169 pips, an average of 777 pips per system.
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  #329 (permalink)  
Old 10-12-2009, 09:18 AM
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More Keseh systems

OK for some reason when I first downloaded their system performance some of the Keseh systems did not come through. I have added them in now.

System Pips
Broker Bio Breaker NH 76457
Gamete Game Maker NH 34680
Secretory Rate NH 25389
Lipid Mobilization NH 6165
Xchange chromosome NH 3250
Cytoplasmix NH -893
Oxidative Stress balancer NH -2644
Peptide Synthesis NH -5953
Electrophysiology Advisor NH -36833
Grand Total 99619

Pretty amazing --- 99619 pips. all systems combined. Even if you take out the effect of commissions, it's still v impressive.

Need to play with these guys on the demo.
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  #330 (permalink)  
Old 10-12-2009, 09:40 AM
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Clarification / Warning

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alec View Post
... that particular account is still in drawdown. Because, as I recall, I mis-evaluated one of the systems I used.
What happened was, in fact, I was induced in error by the start date/days in system of the said system.

I considered the data referred to a period - since Mar 09 - but the system really only started trading several months later. I thought that to be a very serious misinformation.

And this happens for too many systems. I should have double checked, I know now, but still...

If they say a system is trading for 365 days but, really, it's only for 180... It's totally different, the degree of confidence you put on a year's worth data. The significance of half of that period (sometimes less!) is totally distinct.

Last edited by Alec; 10-12-2009 at 09:53 AM..
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Disclaimer: Trading foreign exchange on margin carries a high level of risk, and may not be suitable for all investors. The high degree of leverage can work against you as well as for you. Before deciding to trade foreign exchange you should carefully consider your investment objectives, level of experience, and risk appetite. The possibility exists that you could sustain a loss of some or all of your initial investment and therefore you should not invest money that you cannot afford to lose. You should be aware of all the risks associated with foreign exchange trading, and seek advice from an independent financial advisor if you have any doubts. Any opinions, news, research, analyses, prices, or other information contained on this website is provided as general market commentary and does not constitute investment advice. Forex Capital Markets LLC. will not accept liability for any loss or damage, including without limitation to, any loss of profit, which may arise directly or indirectly from use of or reliance on such information.

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