Now that we have established some observations to keep in mind when trading the systems in REVERSE, let’s dig into and sort the systems with the potential for us to consider.

To summarize, the two observations of trading in REVERSE :

I. The reverse results will NOT be the exact opposite of trading the system forward.

II. If the difference between forward and reverse is much larger than twice the spread, see if the position had the 300 pip platform stop triggered.

I downloaded the systems to an excel spreadsheet and sorted for all systems that have been around since May 20, 2008. I then sorted these systems by number of trades and removed systems with less than 30 trades.

Since we are taking the opposite side of the trades, a quick and easy way to find some systems to review is through the Risk Adjusted Ratio and Avg pips per trade.

The risk adjusted ratio = Net Profits / Max DD

When trading the systems signals as designed, we would like to see a higher RAR. Since we are looking for reverse systems, we want a lower RAR. In fact, the lowest RAR you will find is -1.00. If you see an RAR with -1.00 or even -0.90, then you are looking at a system that is unprofitable and near its maximum drawdown. This also means the system could be forging new lows. So we will focus on systems with very negative RAR.

The second figure to watch out for is the Avg Pips per trade. Recall that one of our observations is that our reverse results will be more than twice the spread worse than the flip side of the trade. So we are looking for deeply negative average pips per trade.

For example, if we are looking at a USDCAD (spread may run 5 pips), then there is not enough profit potential on -8.9 pips per trade according to the system statistics. The worse the better for negative pips per trade.

Here is an attachment of the list I sorted. Since some of these systems are so poor, they may not be placing trades anymore. So I have placed the yellow highlighted systems into a large demo account on reverse and we will sort through the history of the demo account in 30 days. This will help us eliminate those systems that do not produce any trades in 30 days.

Attached Files

Excel Sort Reverse Systems 042009.doc (300.5 KB, 96 views)

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*Past performance posted by Signal and Systems Providers (“Providers”), is not necessarily indicative of future results. No representation is made that any account is likely to achieve profits or losses similar to those shown. In fact, there are frequently sharp differences between hypothetical performance results and the actual results subsequently achieved by any particularly trading program. The composite monthly results are primarily hypothetical results of the master demo and its representation of the Providers, though performance results displayed may represent a combination of live and hypothetical results and are not exclusive to either. There are numerous other factors related to markets in general or to the implementation of any specific trading program that cannot be fully accounted for in the preparation of hypothetical performance results and all of which can adversely affect actual trading results. In the event that specific trades were simultaneously executed in hypothetical and live, real-time trading, the lesser of the two results will be displayed. There is no guarantee that one applying these methodologies would have the same results as the hypothetically posted. Since trading successfully depends on many elements including but not limited to a trading methodology and a trader's own psychology, the web site does not make any representation whatsoever that the above mentioned trading systems might be or are suitable or that they would be profitable for you. Please realize the risk with any investment and consult investment professionals before proceeding. The trading systems herein described have been developed for sophisticated traders who fully understand the nature and the scope of the risks that are associated with trading. Should you decide to trade any or all of these systems' signals, it is your decision.

Links to third-party sites are provided for your convenience and for informational purposes only. Forex Capital Markets LLC bears no responsibility for the accuracy, content, or any other matter related to the external site or for that of subsequent links, and accepts no liability whatsoever for any loss or damage arising from the use of this or any other content. Such sites are not within our control and may not follow the same privacy, security, or accessibility standards as ours. Please read the linked websites' terms and conditions.

Hi. I have a question. Will FSS support a system that does "scalp" type trades that only last a few minutes for maybe 10 to 20 pips? Thanks, Russell.

It all depends on the System provider. The problem I noticied is that their is no standard plan for these systems and if so they are not exposed in detail.

There is one system which matches your criteria - OneFX-Signal-Samari - EURUSD. However the problem with this system is their risk:reward ratio. Profit side it make 10-20 pips on an average, but they dont know when to close a loosing trade.

Please see the last few transactions of this system: the last trade is a loss and it is 150 USD loss where as profits are all under 20 USD. This is the danger with these systems.

Sell 10 1.30299 4/19/2009 11:10:16 PM 1.30141 4/19/2009 11:50:53 PM 15.8 15.8
Sell 10 1.30299 4/19/2009 11:10:26 PM 1.30141 4/19/2009 11:50:54 PM 15.8 15.8
Sell 10 1.29789 4/20/2009 2:11:22 AM 1.29691 4/20/2009 8:55:40 AM 9.8 9.8
Sell 10 1.29782 4/20/2009 2:11:13 AM 1.29657 4/20/2009 8:55:54 AM 12.5 12.5
Sell 10 1.29682 4/20/2009 10:37:05 AM 1.29569 4/20/2009 10:44:11 AM 11.3 11.3
Sell 10 1.29678 4/20/2009 10:36:46 AM 1.29586 4/20/2009 10:44:16 AM 9.2 9.2
Sell 10 1.29647 4/20/2009 11:11:08 AM 1.29553 4/20/2009 11:16:47 AM 9.4 9.4
Sell 10 1.29645 4/20/2009 12:00:13 PM 1.29539 4/20/2009 1:46:04 PM 10.6 10.6
Sell 10 1.29576 4/20/2009 10:44:18 AM 1.29396 4/20/2009 1:46:43 PM 18 18
Sell 10 1.29248 4/20/2009 3:18:55 PM 1.2914 4/20/2009 3:30:38 PM 10.8 10.8
Sell 10 1.29249 4/20/2009 3:18:32 PM 1.29149 4/20/2009 3:30:49 PM 10 10
Sell 10 1.29145 4/20/2009 4:25:36 PM 1.29023 4/20/2009 5:20:04 PM 12.2 12.2
Sell 10 1.29145 4/20/2009 4:25:35 PM 1.29017 4/20/2009 5:20:33 PM 12.8 12.8
Sell 10 1.29139 4/20/2009 5:51:13 PM 1.29059 4/20/2009 11:57:50 PM 8 8
Sell 10 1.29137 4/20/2009 5:51:12 PM 1.29038 4/20/2009 11:58:22 PM 9.9 9.9
Sell 10 1.29093 4/21/2009 12:56:22 AM 1.29021 4/21/2009 6:57:44 AM 7.2 7.2
Sell 10 1.29099 4/21/2009 12:56:11 AM 1.29027 4/21/2009 6:57:45 AM 7.2 7.2
Sell 10 1.29004 4/21/2009 6:57:46 AM 1.30504 4/23/2009 6:19:01 AM -150 -150

In FSS it becomes our responsibility to find it out based on their past performances. Most of the systems wont expose their strategy. One system I find matching your requirementy is OneFX-Signal-Samari - EURUSD. However their risk-reward approach is pathetic. Their profit target are under 20 USD most of the time but they dont know ehen to cut the loss and come out. There lies the danger.
Please see the last 18 trades of this system. 17 are successful and the profit is under 20 USD. However the last trade is a loss and it is -150 USD!!!

So the pain is on the customers!!

This risk:reward ratio is quite typical in scalping strategies. But to me, it does look like a profitable series of trades.

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Hello Sureshvadudev,

I also want to make sure you and everyone else here is aware that FXCM will be updating the FSS home page in the near future. One of the great new features will be a new performance results section, highlighting the:

1) Top 5 Performing Systems
2) Top 5 Most Popular Systems

Make sure to visit that site regularly (after the update) to stay up to date on how the top performing and most popular systems are doing.

If you have any questions about this please let me know at the following forum: FSS Feedback: Help Improve the FSS Product and Experience


- Gavin Minnis
gminnis@fxcm.com

Yes ofcourse it is profitable.. That we can easily make out from the stat. But thinking from a different angle, their appraoch towards a bad trade is pathetic. In the example I mentioned all the effort and pain they took to place last 10-15 trades is wasted by one trade due to their inability to put a stop loss.

I think it will be great if the can consider a stop loss of 50% of the last 10 trades. There stat will become much better.

In this context, I really appreciate the strategy of DBSwing EURUSD.

Is there any way to make out the stop loss strategy of these system from the stat?

Hi Vatts.

Although scalping receives a lot of attention, it is extremely difficult to accomplish and be profitable over the long run. The example you cited is common amoung a scalping strategy. You have to be 'right' on almost all of your trades. Additionally, a scalper is going to hold a wider stop and ofter times it can wipe out many of the winning trades. You do have the option to override the stop loss manually on each trade.

You could do a search of Average Trade Length and see which systems with the shortest ATL come up as the most profitable. Don't forget about the commissions as well. The statistics do not take out commissions. You can eyeball the impact of the commission expense by taking the Average Pip per trade and subtract 1 pip.

The DBSwing looks good. It will start hitting my radar once it comes up on the 12 months anniversary.

Attached Thumbnails

 

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*Past performance posted by Signal and Systems Providers (“Providers”), is not necessarily indicative of future results. No representation is made that any account is likely to achieve profits or losses similar to those shown. In fact, there are frequently sharp differences between hypothetical performance results and the actual results subsequently achieved by any particularly trading program. The composite monthly results are primarily hypothetical results of the master demo and its representation of the Providers, though performance results displayed may represent a combination of live and hypothetical results and are not exclusive to either. There are numerous other factors related to markets in general or to the implementation of any specific trading program that cannot be fully accounted for in the preparation of hypothetical performance results and all of which can adversely affect actual trading results. In the event that specific trades were simultaneously executed in hypothetical and live, real-time trading, the lesser of the two results will be displayed. There is no guarantee that one applying these methodologies would have the same results as the hypothetically posted. Since trading successfully depends on many elements including but not limited to a trading methodology and a trader's own psychology, the web site does not make any representation whatsoever that the above mentioned trading systems might be or are suitable or that they would be profitable for you. Please realize the risk with any investment and consult investment professionals before proceeding. The trading systems herein described have been developed for sophisticated traders who fully understand the nature and the scope of the risks that are associated with trading. Should you decide to trade any or all of these systems' signals, it is your decision.

Links to third-party sites are provided for your convenience and for informational purposes only. Forex Capital Markets LLC bears no responsibility for the accuracy, content, or any other matter related to the external site or for that of subsequent links, and accepts no liability whatsoever for any loss or damage arising from the use of this or any other content. Such sites are not within our control and may not follow the same privacy, security, or accessibility standards as ours. Please read the linked websites' terms and conditions.

I still await an answer from an FXCM person. I am not searching for a scalping system but am interested in getting my trades on FSS as a system provider. I do not know if short term trading lasting only a few minutes is possible on FSS.

Let me rephrase my question. If a system provider enters a market order, how close will the subscribers fills be compared to the system provider. Would subscribers be filled within say within 2 pips of the providers fill?

If you have a system you would like to see about having included in the FSS, then email support@tradency.com. They will provide you with the qualifications needed to be included with the other providers.

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Enroll in our online FX Power Course today and get personalized instruction from our team of expert traders 24 hours a day. We have taught over 25,000 students and in just eight lessons, we will teach you the fundamentals of Forex trading. Click here to get more information

*Past performance posted by Signal and Systems Providers (“Providers”), is not necessarily indicative of future results. No representation is made that any account is likely to achieve profits or losses similar to those shown. In fact, there are frequently sharp differences between hypothetical performance results and the actual results subsequently achieved by any particularly trading program. The composite monthly results are primarily hypothetical results of the master demo and its representation of the Providers, though performance results displayed may represent a combination of live and hypothetical results and are not exclusive to either. There are numerous other factors related to markets in general or to the implementation of any specific trading program that cannot be fully accounted for in the preparation of hypothetical performance results and all of which can adversely affect actual trading results. In the event that specific trades were simultaneously executed in hypothetical and live, real-time trading, the lesser of the two results will be displayed. There is no guarantee that one applying these methodologies would have the same results as the hypothetically posted. Since trading successfully depends on many elements including but not limited to a trading methodology and a trader's own psychology, the web site does not make any representation whatsoever that the above mentioned trading systems might be or are suitable or that they would be profitable for you. Please realize the risk with any investment and consult investment professionals before proceeding. The trading systems herein described have been developed for sophisticated traders who fully understand the nature and the scope of the risks that are associated with trading. Should you decide to trade any or all of these systems' signals, it is your decision.

Links to third-party sites are provided for your convenience and for informational purposes only. Forex Capital Markets LLC bears no responsibility for the accuracy, content, or any other matter related to the external site or for that of subsequent links, and accepts no liability whatsoever for any loss or damage arising from the use of this or any other content. Such sites are not within our control and may not follow the same privacy, security, or accessibility standards as ours. Please read the linked websites' terms and conditions.

Although it is conceivable a fill could be greater than 2 pips, most of the fills do happen with a pip or two. It will depend on the market conditions and liquidity at that time. For example, if you are trying to send a signal around a news event, chance is higher of a poorer fill. This is because the liquidity is typically thinner during news releases and holidays. Contact support@tradency.com for more information on becoming a signal provider.

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Enroll in our online FX Power Course today and get personalized instruction from our team of expert traders 24 hours a day. We have taught over 25,000 students and in just eight lessons, we will teach you the fundamentals of Forex trading. Click here to get more information

*Past performance posted by Signal and Systems Providers (“Providers”), is not necessarily indicative of future results. No representation is made that any account is likely to achieve profits or losses similar to those shown. In fact, there are frequently sharp differences between hypothetical performance results and the actual results subsequently achieved by any particularly trading program. The composite monthly results are primarily hypothetical results of the master demo and its representation of the Providers, though performance results displayed may represent a combination of live and hypothetical results and are not exclusive to either. There are numerous other factors related to markets in general or to the implementation of any specific trading program that cannot be fully accounted for in the preparation of hypothetical performance results and all of which can adversely affect actual trading results. In the event that specific trades were simultaneously executed in hypothetical and live, real-time trading, the lesser of the two results will be displayed. There is no guarantee that one applying these methodologies would have the same results as the hypothetically posted. Since trading successfully depends on many elements including but not limited to a trading methodology and a trader's own psychology, the web site does not make any representation whatsoever that the above mentioned trading systems might be or are suitable or that they would be profitable for you. Please realize the risk with any investment and consult investment professionals before proceeding. The trading systems herein described have been developed for sophisticated traders who fully understand the nature and the scope of the risks that are associated with trading. Should you decide to trade any or all of these systems' signals, it is your decision.

Links to third-party sites are provided for your convenience and for informational purposes only. Forex Capital Markets LLC bears no responsibility for the accuracy, content, or any other matter related to the external site or for that of subsequent links, and accepts no liability whatsoever for any loss or damage arising from the use of this or any other content. Such sites are not within our control and may not follow the same privacy, security, or accessibility standards as ours. Please read the linked websites' terms and conditions.

Can't seem to access the FSS performance page this week. Has it been down all week?

I tried to find Tradency on the web, but the links provided by Google do not work. Tradency - automated software products for the financial markets does not work. Odd. Is there something going on with Tradency?

I am using FireFox and have not had any problems accessing their information. I just tried again and everything is still working.

__________________
Enroll in our online FX Power Course today and get personalized instruction from our team of expert traders 24 hours a day. We have taught over 25,000 students and in just eight lessons, we will teach you the fundamentals of Forex trading. Click here to get more information

*Past performance posted by Signal and Systems Providers (“Providers”), is not necessarily indicative of future results. No representation is made that any account is likely to achieve profits or losses similar to those shown. In fact, there are frequently sharp differences between hypothetical performance results and the actual results subsequently achieved by any particularly trading program. The composite monthly results are primarily hypothetical results of the master demo and its representation of the Providers, though performance results displayed may represent a combination of live and hypothetical results and are not exclusive to either. There are numerous other factors related to markets in general or to the implementation of any specific trading program that cannot be fully accounted for in the preparation of hypothetical performance results and all of which can adversely affect actual trading results. In the event that specific trades were simultaneously executed in hypothetical and live, real-time trading, the lesser of the two results will be displayed. There is no guarantee that one applying these methodologies would have the same results as the hypothetically posted. Since trading successfully depends on many elements including but not limited to a trading methodology and a trader's own psychology, the web site does not make any representation whatsoever that the above mentioned trading systems might be or are suitable or that they would be profitable for you. Please realize the risk with any investment and consult investment professionals before proceeding. The trading systems herein described have been developed for sophisticated traders who fully understand the nature and the scope of the risks that are associated with trading. Should you decide to trade any or all of these systems' signals, it is your decision.

Links to third-party sites are provided for your convenience and for informational purposes only. Forex Capital Markets LLC bears no responsibility for the accuracy, content, or any other matter related to the external site or for that of subsequent links, and accepts no liability whatsoever for any loss or damage arising from the use of this or any other content. Such sites are not within our control and may not follow the same privacy, security, or accessibility standards as ours. Please read the linked websites' terms and conditions.